Mizzou - what do we think?

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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby Snapper » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 pm

Listened to a discussion between Kiper and Mcshay at lunch. They both believe UCLA QB Rosen best prospect, then Darnold from USC. Listed Josh Allen next, then Mayfield from OU. Who is telling Lock he should come out? cardsfan, saw a release on Twitter yesterday that Washington QB KJ Carta-Samuels announced he is transferring as a Grad Transfer. Interesting.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby cardsfan » Tue Dec 26, 2017 2:51 pm

Most of what I see lately has been that Lock likely coming back but he’s staying quiet til after the bowl game. Mizzou didn’t sign a QB in the early signing period. Some think they are hedging their bets—if lock comes back they will sign a HS QB, if not they might look got a grad transfer. They offered a juco QB late who didn’t sign in the early period.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby zsportsguy » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:40 pm

P-D is reporting that Lock says he did not receive a 1st or 2nd round draft projection from the NFL Draft Advisory Council, which means they recommend he return to Mizzou for his senior year. Lock says he's still considering his options, but I agree with Cardsfan...most of the 'talk' around Columbia seems to be that he'll decide to come back.

I'd be very happy with that decision!
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby zsportsguy » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:32 am

Tigers have a GOLDEN opportunity tonight!!! Texas is just a mess, with players sitting out the game to prepare for the NFL draft, players suspended, injuries, defections, etc. Makes me a little nervous, though...as it seems like Texas is so 'ripe' to play a terrible game...makes me expect them to come out a play great! Most of the computer models have Texas winning, despite the short roster. Their defense is likely to be a big challenge. You'd think, if Mizzou can get it rolling early, it will take the fight out of them. We'll see! 8 wins would be one heck of a season, after what they've been through.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby zsportsguy » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:38 am

Snapper wrote:Kool Aide.....Snapper, party of one. In front of the Tigers is a tremendous opportunity. They should and can win out. I would be extremely satisfied with this season and call it a success if, and only if they do.
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For a good laugh, go back to pages 2 thru 4 of this thread...we were all ready to fire Odom and dump a whole bunch of these kids and start over!!! The above post is from October 24th, as we actually started to see signs of life.

Snapper's Koolaid prevailed!!!! :lol: :lol:
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby cardsfan » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:51 am

I certainly didn't think that 'winning out' at that point was a reasonable possibility.

I read some of Lock's comments and found them to be a little strange. He seemed rather put out by the NFL's evaluation of "return to school" and even hinted that he was hearing different things from other people and that he wouldn't necessarily follow the NFL's recommendation. I think part of the evaluation was concern about Mizzou's offense...not really a pro-style. And he said that the choice of new offensive coordinator might influence his decision.

Most of the talk I hear is that Jedd Fisch is the front-runner to get the OC job next year at Mizzou. He was offensive coordinator at UCLA this year and acted as interim head coach through their bowl game yesterday. Fisch has an interesting resume. He didn't play football at all...even in high school. Like many assistant coaches, he has bounced from job to job. He was assistant for 5 different NFL teams......topping out as OC/QB coach for the Vikings in 2009. OC at Miami for 2 years. Then OC with the Jags in the NFL for 2 years. QB/QB coach and 'passing game coordinator' with Michigan for 2 years and OC at UCLA this season. He will not be retained by Chip Kelly.

He definitely interviewed for the Mizzou job and was spotted by reporters at a Mizzou practice a couple weeks ago so most took that as a sign of significant interest. Fisch would likely be a short-term answer as he's definitely looking to become a head coach so I'd think that the chance to coach another likely first round QB if Lock comes back and what should be a pretty darn good Mizzou offense next year would appeal to him.

Fisch would seem to check some of the boxes that Lock has mentioned also.......Fisch has run multiple offenses including pro-style, which would probably be helpful if Lock returns to show competence at more than just the college spread he's run up to now.

None of this is sure, but you can kind of read between the lines and think that if Lock returns, Fisch would be quite interested and if Fisch is hired, Lock might be more likely to return???? I assume we'll find out soon after the game tonight.

All of this makes me a little uneasy to be honest. Love to have Lock back and think there's a chance that the offense could be really good with him. But if we hire a coordinator and change the offense specifically to try to boost the draft stock of one player....I'm just not sure that's a great idea???
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby zsportsguy » Thu Dec 28, 2017 9:20 am

Well, surely, that's not the way Drew Lock wants to go out...and he certainly didn't help his case for the draft last night. He wasn't terrible...just the one bad throw for a pick in that last drive...he missed a couple of deep balls that might've been big plays, but the long touchdown throw was a thing of beauty - there are some good NFL QB's who can NOT possibly make that throw...but, overall, the offense just wasn't good. Texas' punter had a lot to do with the problems...absolutely no field position...EVER...all night! I assume that had a huge effect on the play-calling...which did NOT look at all like one of Heupel's games.

Texas, however, was great on defense!!!...that also might have had something to do with it. Sounds like some of the Mizzou trash talk ruffled some feathers...don't think that was a good idea. (their Coach's 'prancing around' on the sideline after running a reverse to tack on a meaningless score was not a particularly good look for him. Reminded me of why I was so glad to get away from all the Texas BS. - #wearetoogoodtobeclassy)

On the upside...the defense blew two coverages on the back out of the backfield to put us in the early hole...but they were basically great from there on. I thought they were incredibly physical...the secondary handled a lot of one-on-one coverage and didn't give up any more big plays. With the field position issues and the 3 and outs, it seemed like Texas started every possession at midfield...and yet, they shut 'em out for the entire 2nd and 3rd quarters to keep us in the game. Just couldn't overcome the 9 points scored by the Texas defense.

I feel like last night's performance tells us that...1 - the Offensive Coordinator hire is a big one! 2 - Drew Lock needs to come back and finish this off. 3 - the six-game winning streak was fantastic!!! An unbelievable comeback from a totally lost season to a bowl game...but...we caught a HUGE break with the teams we faced in that stretch...took full advantage of that...but we still have a ways to go to beat good teams. Disappointing...unless you go back to where we were when snapper made his 'koolaid' post...then, it's not so bad.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby cardsfan » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:12 am

Can't argue with any of this, Z. A few thoughts:
--I guess progress this season. 7 wins, bowl game. Step in the right direction.
--If Lock comes back, I think you could reasonably make a case that the team would be poised to make further improvement next year as they'd return most of the offense and a lot of the defense (d-end will be a concern next year).
--Still not really sure what this team was. At the end of the day, the were 7-0 against FCS team and FCS teams with losing record. 0-6 against FCS teams with winning record. I guess that's the definition of mediocre? They didn't show they were good enough to beat anybody who was even bordering on being a good team at the end of the day. And lost to some fairly common teams (Purdue, Texas)
--Odom still has a lot to prove. The winning streak buys him another year but I don't think it really cements him as anything close to a proven guy. The team appeared totally unprepared to start this season. And they looked totally unprepared to play this bowl game after a long layoff. Odom has to bear some responsibility for this.
--Obviously, the lack of an offensive coordinator/QB coach/O-line coach in the weeks leading up to this game and during this game had to hurt and that's just one of the realities of current state of college football. Odom had all of his eggs in the Josh Huepel basket and overall the offense carried the team to the wins they got but they were woefully undercoached on the offensive side once Huepel left. Finley may have a bright future but he appeared to be way over his head trying to call plays last night.
--I really can't understand what the offensive strategy was. The things this team had done well on offense this year were: throw the ball deep, throw to TE's over the middle of the field intermediate depth, run with quick hitters. What we came out running last night was: delayed handoffs, horizontal passes (Lock was very lucky to avoid a pick-6 in the first quarter on what turned out to be a completed pass), screen passes. Our WR's are not physical so the WR screens haven't worked much all year....they don't block well. Our RB's are best running straight ahead, not great at catching the ball and I just don't recall us having much luck with the screen game. I think we ran screen passes on 3 of our first 4 third downs. I thought just a very strange game plan. The field position certainly limited the play calling to some extent.
--Our placekicker probably became the highlight of our special teams over the second half of the season. He quietly had a nice year. I don't know what happened to our punter who was terrific early but he really seemed to lose his leg as the year went on. Our return games were not good.......no clue why none of the coaches told the kick returner to just stay in the end zone last night......he kept coming out and getting tackled inside the 20.
--Special teams matter. Along with turnovers, special teams were the difference in the game last night. We got nothing out of return games. Their punter was amazing. Our punting was mediocre our coverage teams were not good. They played on a short field all night and we played on a long one. At one point in the second half, Mizzou's average starting spot was around the 15 yard line and Texas' was the 41 yard line. Playing on a field that is 25 yards longer is a huge disadvantage.
--One of my concerns for Odom is his unwillingness to delegate/trust assistant coaches. He totally delegates the offense, but the rest, he wants to have his hand in. He's effectively the defensive coordinator and while Ryan Walters will have that title next year, there's no doubt Odom will effectively fill that role. Odom claims full responsibility for special teams as well. I just don't think a good head coach can be THAT involved in the day to day coaching and still do his head coaching job effectively.

Some thoughts on Lock. I'm sure if he decides to go to NFL this year, he'll get drafted somewhere. As Z said, that TD throw he made was beautiful and really not a throw that there are many people who can make. He has a big arm and accurate on that sort of throw. But he has a lot of holes in his game, I think. I'm surely not an expert at analyzing QB play but he is not terribly accurate at short passes. He seems to want to throw every pass 100 mph and I wonder how much that contributes to all the drops by our WR's?

But it's pretty clear that he's not working with an elite group of receivers here either. I think the TE's have a chance to move on eventually but I don't think any of the WR's have shown NFL potential. You can't play at that level with so many drops and I know Moore puts up big numbers and was a good college WR....but he still drops too many passes.

Finally....that TD throw by Lock was great, but if you watch that.....he had all day, he had an absolutely clean pocket......there was no traffic in front of him so he could step into that throw. And the receiver was behind the defender. In the NFL, QB's simply don't often get that much room to throw and we've seen Lock make a lot of mistakes when he has pressure in his face. NFL WR's rarely run by NFL DB's. So the throws that Lock makes the best to me seem like plays that will rarely be available in the NFL at all. You have to be able to throw under pressure and fit the ball into tight areas and I'm just not convinced that Lock has proved he can do that yet.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby cardsfan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 9:07 am

I was looking at Mizzou roster last night and one of the big misses Odom has had in his first 2 recruiting classes is at wide receiver. He's effective whiffed at the WR position in each of his first 2 years. The 2016 class included Dominic Collins who plays a bit but has shown nothing special at all. But he's the only WR left on the roster from that class. Christian Holmes was listed at WR when recruited but he's playing DB now. Harry Ballard was in that class but didn't make grades so went to juco and he's going to be coming in next year so maybe we'll get something out of him.

Last year, Odom signed 2 WR...a kid named Clark who was suspended and then dismissed before the season even started and DaRon Davis a highly rated recruit who also failed to make grades and went to juco. I'm never quite sure how this works but from what I read, Davis is supposed to be on the team next year also. In fact I think he's supposed to enroll at Mizzou at semester break. I'm not sure if he went to juco or just what.

They are going to add 6 WR's in this next class.....including Ballard and Davis and really they are going to need immediate contributions from a couple of these guys, I think. WR is one of the thinnest groups on the team already and they'll lose Moore, who was their leading receiver each of the past 2 years. It's real important that they get some kids in this year's recruiting class who can develop into reliable receivers because obviously they have a big hole from totally missing on 2 straight classes at the position.
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Re: Mizzou - what do we think?

Postby cardsfan » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:58 am

Interesting hire by Odom--Derek Dooley as offensive coordinator. I won't even pretend to think that I know if this is a "good hire" or not. Seems like a strange one to me at least. On the positive side, he's familiar with SEC country.......graduate assistant at Georgia, assistant at LSU under Saban fro 4 years, head coach at Tennessee for 2 seasons. He has NFL experience--did a year with Dolphins earlier and just finished 4 seasons with the Cowboys as WR coach. This is the good stuff.

On the negative side:
His tenure at head coach at Tennessee went badly.....now, if we were hiring him to be our head coach, this would be a huge concern but big difference between head coach and coordinator.
He has never been a coordinator at any level.
He has no experience as a play-caller at any level
He's got the title to Offensive Coordinator/Quarterback coach....but he's also never been a Quarterback coach at any level.

There were a lot of more-qualified-on-paper names floating around for the job, but who knows if they were even interested or if Mizzou was really interested. There has been a pretty massive freakout on the Mizzou chat boards over Dooley and I don't particularly understand that. In general, my thought is that if you have confidence in your head coach, as a fan, you simply have to trust that he knows what he's doing when it comes to hiring assistants. I guess that's part of the problem for a lot of people. Odom's track record thus far in hiring assistants has been pretty spotty. Eventually, obviously Odom will be held responsible for the hire--head coach makes enough hiring mistakes and he gets fired himself.

My best guess is that if Lock comes back next season, the Dooley hire will look fine for 2018 and then 2019 will be the first year we'll really be able to judge his coaching ability. With all the talent coming back on offense next season, I think there are a lot of coaches out there who could coach this offense to score a lot of points.

I guess my initial thought is just wait-and-see. Hope for the best on this one.

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